When someone you love is in pain—but can’t say the words out loud—what can you do? Kate speaks with beloved Canadian novelist Miriam Toews about growing up in a Mennonite community where suffering was often silent and mental illness misunderstood. They talk about the long shadow of religious shame, the courage it takes to tell the truth, and what it means to stay present with people we can’t fix. This conversation is tender, fierce, and unflinchingly honest.

This episode includes discussion of suicide. If you’re struggling, you can call or text 988 for the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.