We Are Good Medicine

Kate Bowler: Do you ever feel lonely? Like deep in your bones lonely. Or maybe it’s the quieter kind. The kind that creeps in when you’re folding the laundry. Or up late. Or scrolling endlessly on your phone wondering if anyone actually sees you. We experience loneliness for so many reasons the isolation of chronic pain or illness, the demands of caregiving. The sting of unanswered love. Retirement, and sometimes the isolation that brings. Or maybe the ways that relationships change and we may not even recognize it at the moment. If that’s you, and let’s be honest, it’s probably all of us at one time or another, you are in the right place. This is Everything Happens and I’m Kate Bowler. Today’s conversation is about the ache of loneliness and what it might look like to take small steps toward connection. Not because that will magically fix it all, or even because we always want to be hyper connected to people. But just because we’re not meant to do this life alone. My guest today is Doctor Vivek Murthy, who served as the US Surgeon General not once but twice, most recently stepping down as the nation’s doctor just a few weeks ago. I was lucky enough to join him at the ceremony, celebrating the end of his time in the role as he said goodbye to his team, his uniform and the good work they’ve done together. It was very confusing. They let me be in charge of the ceremony. There was a lot of me like yelling commands. That was like the command part. I just want, you know, that was part of the service. There was also the part where I got to give a tender speech about how much I adore him, in which I could just make as many jokes as I wanted because no one supervised the speech. During his time as Surgeon General, Vivek tackled some of the biggest public health challenges of our time. Addiction. The opioid epidemic. Youth mental health. But there’s one crisis that he couldn’t stop thinking about. Loneliness. He believes that so much of what people suffer from stems from disconnection, that what we really need isn’t more achievement, but deeper belonging. So in this conversation, we talk about what loneliness does to us, not just emotionally, but in the way that it shapes our lives and our sense of self. And more importantly, we talk about what we can do about it. Vivek has this gentle, wise way of reminding us that connection isn’t just like a nice extra. It’s as essential as any other kind of care. So if you’re feeling the ache of loneliness, or just wondering what small steps you can do to reconnect with the people who matter most, this is the episode for you. So without further ado, here is my lovely friend, Doctor Vivek Murthy.

Kate: I feel so proud looking at you, just so proud and it was so touching to hear you talk about your parents today and just how their hope for you has been such a big part of what carries your story. They I mean, your dad is a doctor. And you say he grew up in Bangalore.

Vivek Murthy: So he grew up in a small farming village near Bangalore and my mother grew up in Bangalore, and they had an arranged marriage as people did during those times in India. And then they made their way to the United States. But sometimes I just say that, and I then pause and realize that every step of that journey contained in that simple sentence was really hard. Like, nobody ever really finished school in the village. Yet my dad somehow did. No one ever went to medical school. That was, like, unthinkable. But he somehow did. Leaving India was really hard. But he somehow did that, too. And my mom, you know, grew up as a as a woman in India at a time where, you know, women weren’t getting a lot of advanced degrees, but she somehow did her master’s in English literature. She got married and they both moved and built a life in the United States and a place where they didn’t really know anyone and didn’t have any contacts or resources. But it’s sort of a life that’s been built against the odds. And I look at this story that they made possible for me, and I realized that there are so many seeds they planted along the way to encourage me to dream and to not settle for what I can see right in front of me, but to imagine what might be possible around the corner, and then to work hard for that. They gave me a spiritual foundation to to believe and to find a place of comfort when things were tough, you know, and things didn’t work out. And even today, like, you know, my like their love and their guidance are so always there. I think I still sort of realize at times that like, I do things that I hope my parents will be proud of it. You know, I sometimes will call them. I don’t tell them about most of the things that I do these days, but every now and then, if something’s really meaningful to me, I’ll, I’ll send them like an article about it or the actual thing that we created, or I’ll tell them about the experience and like their joy in my journey just means, like everything to me, you know, and I just feel really lucky that my parents are actually alive to experience this with me, because I look at this journey as a product of everything that they invested, created, nurtured over the years. And, I really feel like this has been our collective experience serving as Surgeon General.

Kate: Yes, I can totally hear that in the way that you hope. It’s like watching you stand up there in your fancy uniform, many cufflinks and seeing this video where you’ve traveled the country, you’ve talked to people like openly, soulfully about their problems and their hopes, there is this sense that we do get carried forward by each other and that does like well up in us such an intense gratitude for all the tiny lily pads that somehow let us walk on water for a second.

Vivek: Yeah, it is true. I think one of the many great joys that I’ve gotten from traveling and talking to people, it’s honestly at its most basic level, just this sense of being with and connected to other people, feeling like we’re part of something, part of a collective experience together. It’s one thing to know that, it’s one thing to see how many followers or contacts you have on social media or to see, the fact that there are millions of people out there leaving comments here and there, that’s one thing, but actually going to hold somebody’s hand, to hear their voice, to see the expression on their face, to experience something with them. Like that just reminds me that even though sometimes you feel like a lonely world, that we’re not alone and that there’s so many of us that are hungry for connection. Hungry for being a part of something that’s bigger than ourselves, and as I leave this job, that’s actually what gives me hope is that at our core, we still have, I think, what it takes to it create the happiness and the fulfillment that we all seek. We still, I do think, fundamentally care about each other. I think that our instinct is to be generous when we see people in need. I think our instinct is to reach out when we see others in pain, and those deeper instincts are what we need to reach for and encourage and cultivate in our kids. But they’re there, they’re fundamentally part of who we are.

Kate: Community has been such like a, I mean, a melody in all these different initiatives that you’ve put out and I know a lot of your staff, your staff were like so kind, so energetic. They have such a desire to create community carrying interventions. And it’s amazing how much your work has been at odds with our cultures prevailing ethos of like individualism above all, like climb the ladder, take care of yourself. It’s a million different versions of you get yours, which can sound gentler, like, you know, self-care, which I still need to do. Someday I’ll take care of myself. But your feeling that we’re really good medicine to each other is really, it gets very emotional when you look at, like a video of you talking to college students about just how sad they get when they feel like this world doesn’t have enough for them.

Vivek: Thanks, Kate. I mean, one of the things that really worries me is that there’s so much in the world right now that’s telling us we’re not enough. That’s telling us we’re not worthy. That’s telling us if we just do more and achieve more and acquire more and create more, that somehow that that’s going to fill all the deeper holes in our life, that somehow that’s going to mend a broken spirit that has become a reality in our lives. I mean, the truth is that there’s a struggle, I think, that’s happening right now, like in society and struggle that I write about in this parting prescription that I’m issuing is my final product, you know, in office. But it’s a struggle between I think of it as two triads, two anchoring forces, two approaches to life. And the one that I think is right now, driving so much of societies is this triad of success. And that’s centered around money, fame and power. And the reason I start to think about this is I started hearing this from young people who and when I would go to college campuses and high schools, and I’d ask them, hey, how do you define success? It was really asking them how society defining success for you. And they would talk about, you know, the fact that they needed to become famous, they needed to make money, they needed to get a powerful job. And if they did those things then they would make it. People were going to write articles about them, make documentaries about them. They were going to be in the papers. And it was going to be amazing. But in the back of their heads and in their voices, you can even hear, there’s a part of them that was doubtful, is this really going to make me happy, though? But, you know what, they didn’t want to be left behind. They didn’t want to be the person who sat that out, and then found out in five years that everyone else was ahead, and they were unhappy and behind. So we pursue success because we hope it will make us fulfilled. My worry is that the current model of success is not actually leading to fulfillment. And it’s actually, I think, detracting from our health. I think it’s hurting us. And what we really need is to recenter our lives around this triad of fulfillment. Because that’s at the end of the day what we want. We want it for ourselves, for our kids. We want to be fulfilled. And that triad of fulfillment that we really need is anchored in relationships, in purpose and in service. Those are the three elements that we need to build into our lives, that we need to, frankly, build into our culture, because we can’t just put it in a textbook and say, that’s important. We have to think about what are the messages that, you know, people are getting that all of us are getting? How can we tell this story about the triad of fulfillment and the people who have lived it through books and movies and documentaries? How can we do it through music? How can we start talking to each other, to our friends? How can we raise our kids in ways that emphasize these three elements as really being what we want to cultivate in our lives? That’s sort of what I want for my kids. It’s yeah, that’s a cultural shift I want to be a part of making in society.

Kate: We’re going to be right back after a break to hear from our sponsors. Don’t go anywhere. What was the stat again about the number of kids who wanted to become influencers?

Vivek: You know, what I do remember is that there is a higher and higher proportion of kids these days who say that they want to be famous compared to decades ago. And what we also find, interestingly, is if 58% of young adults ages 18 through 25 say that they don’t have any or minimal sense of purpose or meaning in their life. One it just like pains me as a parent to think that, like the majority of young adults out there say they have low or no meaning or purpose in their life. I mean, that’s deeply sad to hear. But also like I think I see in this stats on fame, I see that reflected in the conversations I have with people around the country, like so many kids say, like my goal is to be an influencer and because that’s what they see in the environment around them. And when kids are spending 4.8 hours a day on average on social media, which is their reality now, their life, their reality is shaped by what’s happening online. It’s honestly shaped by what’s happening in real life. And so I, I do think that’s a real shift that we’ve got to like be aware of. But like if we want our kids to be healthy and happy, like we got to think about the influences in their life that are guiding them to, to define success. You know, like, what’s shaping their destination that they want to, you know, drive toward. And I’m just worried right now that for many kids we’re pushing in the wrong direction.

Kate: Yeah. That’s right. You published this beautiful prescription around this triad of fulfillment. And I kind of want to take each part because I think those are the things that makes me think of you. So the first is relationships. And I mean, one thing that probably the thing you’ll be most famous for, the cultural intervention that this office has made most in, I think, is around the need for relationships. You focused a lot on the quality of relationships, the encouragement to reach out. I mean, I’ve seen you ask people for small steps. Like, what are some of the little prompts you feel that you’ve, like, really settled on as helping people take another step into creating deeper relationships with people?

Vivek: Yeah, there are a lot. And I think part of my interest in this area honestly comes to the fact that I struggled a lot as a kid with loneliness and not just as a kid, but at times as an adult as well I struggled. I’m, you know, an introvert and I’m, you know, by nature, I’m shy and particularly when I was a kid, I was, so it wasn’t always the easiest thing in the world to make friends, you know, as a child growing up. So that feeling viscerally, I so remember even as I’m telling you about it, like, I can feel what it felt like.

Kate: And I, I would bet that the people we like the most are the people who know that feeling. I, I know, I mean, there’s like at least a decade and a half of my life of being wildly unpopular. And I, I don’t think I know, like the burst of love I get from, like a, like a good friend unless I knew the opposite of just how embarrassing or frustrating or lonely it is just to not even know how to create the hook that you really wish you could.

Vivek: Yeah it’s really hard. And I think you’re actually right that there are a lot of people that we know who probably went through this kind of experience. At the time, when I was a kid, I thought I was the only one, and then later, as I grew up, I talked to some of my classmates from that time and they were like, oh, yeah, we were really struggling to. We thought we were the only ones. So I think we’re really good at just putting these masks on and making it seem like everything is great. And I think we’re especially good at that now. Like, we do that online, I think all the time on social media, people arenalways posting about their highlights and it makes people feel like they’re regular.

Kate: No one does the tragic lowlights. The like grainy 2 a.m. what did I just eat photo.

Vivek: Yeah, people don’t post that stuff. And even though we know that the highlights aren’t all of life like, it actually still makes us feel worse about ourselves when all we’re seeing is other people’s highlights. So, look, I do think that that that has really changed, like people’s perception of things, or has changed their sense of what reality is, but I also think that at the end of the day, like, what I realize is that these small steps really do matter and can make a big difference when it comes to rebuilding our relationship. So what I tend to think about is can you spend 15 minutes a day just reaching out to somebody you care about? There’s no agenda needed just to, like, say hello, see how you’re doing.

Kate: You’re very good at the follow up I will just say. I hope in your list of fingers right there that one of them is just try to remember a detail of what someone was even just complaining about, because that’s the perfect follow up. Every time I complain about something two weeks later I’ll get a text from you, it’s like, hey, in that voice, that’s how I picture it. Hey, just wanted to check in what you said about. You always do that. And it’s a nice little feeling of like, whatever you thought was just kind of thrown away, someone’s picking up.

Vivek: That’s really kind of you. I appreciate that. I know when people do that for me like it, it makes me feel like, oh, this somebody cares about me, they’re thinking about me, you know? And I want to be that kind of friend too, to others. You know, the thing I think about is, is a very simple thing, is to actually pick up the phone when people call. And now that seems like super countercultural today.

Kate: People don’t use phones as phones.

Vivek: People don’t use phones.

Kate: Phones are computers now.

Vivek: That’s right.

Kate: Phones are basically fax machines again.

Vivek: But I realize that part of the reason why I think people don’t pick up the phone line is one, because sometimes, like you’re in the middle of doing something, I get that. But I think the less we do it, the less comfortable we get doing it as well. It’s like our social muscle is actually a muscle and it gets weaker when we don’t use it, it gets stronger when we do use it. But I realize that if I just pick up the phone and if I’m busy, say to someone, hey, I’m in the middle of something, but it’s so awesome to hear from you, can I call you back, you know, a bit later? Is that okay? I might take ten, 15 seconds to do that. Which, honestly, is less time that it takes me to, like, text them back aften then, like, seeing if they left a voicemail or seeing if they text or not and then, like, trying to respond to their text. It actually takes less time. But we feel so much better just hearing each other’s voices, even just for a short time. So that’s sort of a second thing that I’ve learned. The third thing actually is, in a fairly retro move, I’m, I’m a fan of bringing voice mail back, you know, or if you’re not into voice mail. Voice memos, right?

Kate: Love voice memos.

Vivek: Yes. But like, letting people hear your voice as opposed to just writing text can be so powerful. And actually, again, it can take less time, too. You just push a button, you say something, and you send it, you know. There is real power in that. So that’s like another sort of small thing, that I think can be a part of life. And then the last thing I’ll just note, and these are the long list of little things we can do is just to remember, like when somebody is talking to you, like, listen to them with your full attention. And that again, seems really basic.

Kate: It’s when you say though I’m like, oh yeah. You mean like your shoulders are squared towards someone and you use your eyes?

Vivek: Yeah, it sounds so basic but it’s actually quite countercultural today. Because people actually don’t like, really look at each other a lot of times when they’re talking to each other, and they also don’t single task and focus on each other, they’re often distracted by their phones or whatever else is happening around them. But if you ever had the experience of actually just looking someone in the eye and listening to them as they talk, or having them listen to you and just being fully focused on them, you know that that’s an incredibly powerful feeling. So if you give somebody five minutes of focused attention and you truly listen to them, they will get more out of that and you will too then 30 minutes of distracted conversation. So those are some little things I try to remember in my communications, because I found it can go a long way in helping us feel just more connected to the people around us.

Kate: We’re going to take a quick break to tell you about the sponsors of this show. We’ll be right back. You’re the only person I tolerate sincerity from in a high concentration because–

Vivek: Hahahahahahaha.

Kate: But I think it’s because–

Vivek: Wait am I doing this podcast wrong? Should I try to be less sincere?

Kate: You’re like, ‘snarky and mean.’

Vivek: It wasn’t in the memo. Oh my gosh.

Kate: But one of the things I really like about the way you talk to people is you do really kind of square up to them. You really you give them your full like care bear stare and I, I do I mean I’ve seen the way my son is when I give my full, you know, when you just turn your little moon face towards somebody and you really I, I think that’s just a really beautiful thing, what you’re saying about the, the intensity that we can create, even if we don’t feel like we have a lot of time or even that we really know what we want from, could be, you know, a million kinds of relationships we’re not even sure we want. But I think sometimes just knowing that you got like the full picture of somebody, it’s the weirdest kind of peace.

Vivek: Yeah. It’s that well, I think it’s because that’s how we’re wired as human beings. We’re wired to deeply connect with each other, to hear each other’s voice, to interpret people’s body language, to feel their presence.

Kate: To make fun of them. To notice things about them so you can use it against them later. Is that not what everyone’s doing?

Vivek: These are all skills that we have honed and honed well. But I just think like we have lost so much of that like in, in the day to day today. Like we don’t see each other as much, certainly not in person, that when we actually do have those experiences where we come together and we truly focus on each other, it feels so incredibly powerful. You know, like, just absolutely extraordinary. You know, one of the big challenges that is in front of us today is if we want to truly connect, create a more connected world.,If we want to rebuild the social fabric of society, we have to create more in-person experiences for people, and we can augment those and complement them with online interactions and virtual engagements. But at the core, it’s our in-person interactions that make a difference. It’s the having someone over for a meal, catching up with a friend, or during a walk. It’s taking a weekend to go see your family, you know, even if it’s for a day or so and have that face to face time. It’s just showing up for a neighbor and knocking on their door to welcome them to the community. Like, these are the face to face moments that we now need to create more of in our lives.

Kate: Yeah, that’s so true. I just moved, well, last year I moved closer to my best friend just so I could have more–

Vivek: Amazing.

Kate: Close, like random, let me just stop by, by the way, I made too much chili, why does nobody want my chili? That kind of stuff. You and I talk a lot about purpose.

Vivek: Yes.

Kate: Sometimes I find it’s almost hard to describe quickly because it’s kind of soul work. You’re asking people to dig out another layer of the why of what we do. And I know a lot of us just have jobs. You know, we have to have jobs. We have to have work. We have to have all the things that fill up a day. But asking people to kind of connect with a sense of purpose feels like asking them to stop and maybe filter out some of the light pollution and figure out where the stars are.

Vivek: Yeah.

Kate: As opposed to just live.

Vivek: Yeah. I mean, I think purpose like fundamentally is about our why, right. Some of what we do is why we do it. It’s also not the goals that we set, but it’s the reasons behind those goals. And I think that purpose is an essential ingredient of life. It’s what gives us the energy, the motivation, the focus to move forward one day to the next. Now people’s purpose can be really different, right? Like, I may find great purpose in raising a child, you know, and helping them be, you know, a wonderful part of society. And we can also have multiple purposes in our life. But purpose, when it’s rooted in contributing to the lives of others, is a purpose that really nurtures us and sustains and supports us. And that’s one of the reasons I have been quite concerned that so many of the cultural influences that are telling our kids in particular, what really matters in life are ones that are purposes that aren’t actually anchored in contributing to other people’s lives. It’s more anchored on my life, right? How can I advance more? How can I, get more, how can I earn more, etc.? And there’s nothing again wrong with, like making money, with being famous, with being powerful. The problem is, when we come to see that as the path to fulfillment and the center of our lives, because fundamentally, there’s a tension between focusing entirely on yourself and being a part of something bigger than yourself. Yeah. And as human beings, we crave wanting to be a part of something bigger. Like one of the times and you and I got together recently was actually on the day of the eclipse.

Kate: Oh my gosh. That was okay, on the gratitude list of the last year, that goes to the very tippy top. That was one of the most joyful days I had this last year. Is spending a very weird eclipse day with you.

Vivek: Hahahahahahahaha.

Kate: It was so fun.

Vivek: It was so much fun. Yeah,  we watched the eclipse at the White House together. It was wonderful. And what was interesting is we weren’t alone. Not only were there, right, like, hundreds of people came out from the different White House buildings to watch together on West Exec Drive. And we also knew that there were millions of people.

Kate: Getting retinal damage at the same moment.

Vivek: We had glasses, to be clear.

Kate: To be fair, you were like, everyone needs their glasses. You spent 90% of that day making sure everyone had their glasses.

Vivek: But it was just one of those incredible moments where we felt like we were a part of something bigger.

Kate: That’s right.

Vivek: And that happened this same year, it was 2024, as the Olympics, which is another moment that makes so many of us, like, step back and feel like we’re part of something bigger, not just rooting for our country, but this incredible experience of the Olympics. So I think that part of the reason those moments are so powerful is because I think that’s actually a genuine human craving. And so I think if we recognize the need to be a part of something bigger than ourselves, I think we have to anchor our sense of purpose around that. And the thing I wonder about for my kids and for all of our kids is where are the messages coming from that are telling them to cultivate a sense of purpose that’s rooted in contributing to other people’s lives? Where is that being held up as the model for how to build and lead your life. We need more examples of that, because it does worry me that more than half of young adults right now are saying that they don’t have a sense of meaning or purpose in their life, and that’s something we have to change.

Kate: Yeah. I guess that kind of leads us to the third element, which is community, because so much, it seems, of the solution to our I mean, I feel this too, when I’m in a like a, a loop with chronic pain is one of the great lies of pain is that you are alone.

Vivek: Yes.

Kate: I mean, the secondary wave after pain is just diseases of despair. That nobody cares, I can’t solve this anyway, I’ve actually already tried this. If I, you know, if I, if I, if I, then it won’t matter anyway. And it, it cuts us off from even believing that other people or believing that other people care or that we have much to contribute anyway. And yet community continues to show up as this like very odd necessity. Like we have to even if we’re in what I think of as like the accidental narcissism of pain, we have to be rewoven back into other people like or else. And you’ve been very clear about the or else.

Vivek: Yeah it’s dangerous for our mental and physical health if we’re not part of a community. And yeah that’s why you know, I really think that community is a big missing element in our lives right now. It’s what we have to build, rebuild, because it’s the foundation. Like we can pass laws and create programs that help solve a number of problems in our country. But if we don’t have a strong sense of community, a lot of those feel like they’re being built on a foundation of sand. Right? And they easily fall apart because when we’re part of a community, we not only support and sustain each other, but we also advocate for the kind of change that we all need. We stick together during times of crisis and adversity. And I think I do worry that one of many reasons why we struggled with Covid is, I think that weakening of community, that disintegration of the social fabric has been building for years. And when you have stressors, especially like a major pandemic, that can really tear you apart. So I think if community is having three sort of critical components as one of those is relationships, one of them is purpose. And the third one is service that when we help each other and we have a culture of helping each other, that’s really essential because it also reminds us that we’re not alone. I’ll tell you an example, the other day, just, two days ago, somebody sent an email out on our condo listserv. We live in a condo building with a bunch of units in it. And the person said, hey, I ordered groceries that are now delivered at my door, but I got stuck, and I’m not going to be able to be home for a couple of hours because the roads are closed or something. Can somebody take my food and put it in the fridge because I don’t want it to spoil? It’s a very simple request, right? But you can imagine, like, it’s not always easy to ask for help in that way. Right. Especially even though these are your neighbors. You don’t know everybody, right?

Kate: Oh, I would let it rot. I’d be like, I will suffer the gastrointestinal consequences. I will not ask for help.

Vivek: But what was really interesting is, you know, we have maybe, I don’t know, 50 or so, like, you know, units in the building. I don’t know how many people are online at that moment, but within ten minutes, five people responded and said, hey, no problem, I’ll get your stuff and I’ll put it in the fridge. Just let us know when you’re here and we’ll we’ll bring it over to you. What an incredibly kind thing to do now. Very simple act of service. You probably didn’t take people more than, like, two minutes to walk down the hall to his door, get the groceries, and put them in their fridge. But I’ll tell you, it’s been a couple of days, and I’m still, like, feeling kind of nice about that, about the warmth of like that I felt like, wow, this really is a community. People actually do step up and help each other.

Kate: And that’s a weird side effect, too, because you think if you ask for something, then you spent your chips. Yeah, but weirdly, people like it.

Vivek: They really do.

Kate: People like you more when they feel like they’ve meet a need that you have. Which I still can’t entirely wrap my brain around. But it’s happened all the time. Every time I have a problem that I actually end up telling anybody about, I always end up growing closer to the person that helped me. And I feel, you’d think there’s like a just like a small dignity surrender exchange where you have to, like, give something up in exchange for someone’s superiority. But it never works that way.

Vivek: You’re so right. And that I think people actually really enjoy, like, being able to be useful in other people’s lives. I think people like being able to show up, because I think that so much in the world, again, comes back to messages that make us feel like we’re not worthy, we’re not enough. And when you actually help somebody, you’re reminded that actually I am enough. I have something to give somebody else. I can make a difference in somebody’s life. And it could be something as small as getting their groceries and putting it in the fridge.

Kate: Or something as big as do you have $1 million? And if so, my address is.

Vivek: Hahahahaha. That’s why you keep sending me these messages.

Kate: Wouldn’t it be amazing if this podcast finally became the Ponzi scheme that I’ve always desired.

Vivek: Oh my goodness, Kate. Yeah, but I think these things like the, here’s the thing that’s really striking to me about rebuilding community is that in some level, it feels disarmingly simple, almost like unbelievably simple, right? That, hey, if I just start reaching out to people for a few minutes a day and look for one thing I can do each day to help people and start thinking about my purpose in terms of, hey, what can I do to contribute to other people’s lives, that that’s going to make me feel part of something bigger than myself? The answer is yes, actually it is. And we don’t need to, like, sign up for an expensive like program. We don’t have to, like, get trained, you know, like by, you know, the master of the universe and community. Like, we don’t do any of these things. It’s these small, simple acts that can help us build community. And to me, the reason that’s all true is because living in community, being a part of community is not transforming to something we’re not. It’s a return to who we always have been, to what we crave as human beings. And this is about coming home. It’s the home til we can live healthier and happier lives, and history and life experience tells us that when we’re together, when we care for each other, when we’re invested in each other and we help each other, which are the elements of relationships, purpose and service, then we feel like we truly belong and like we have meaning in our life.

Kate: Yeah.

Vivek: Anyway, that’s what I want for my kids and for the country, but I know getting there, a lot of this is about culture change. And so I put together this parting prescription because I wanted to lay out how we actually make this change and how we start doing it as individuals. But also what we can start doing as workplaces and schools and is, as a society, ultimately drive that change forward so that when our kids grow up and as they’re growing up, they will find a true sense of community, people who will like lift them up when they fall down, people who don’t judge them by the worst thing they said or the biggest mistake that they made, and people who ultimately make them feel like they’re part of something.

Kate: When I started forcing, my poor sweet son into the hobbies that only I like, like cello. I used to play cello.

Vivek: I didn’t know you used to play cello.

Kate: I’m actually not the worst at it. I loved cello, but mostly I realized that I just wanted him to learn music, but I wanted him to learn music because I wanted him to get the feeling you get when you start that first note, and then the rest of the orchestra joins you. And that like overwhelming feeling that your song, and let’s be real, the cello never gets the good part. You won’t even hear the whole piece unless everybody joins in. That like strange, beautiful soul reverberating hum of other people’s gifts at the same time. And getting to see you in action makes me feel like I can hear the whole orchestra. I absolutely adore you. I absolutely adore your staff. I’m so proud of you and everything you’re going to do next, I’m going to get very weirdly intrusive about and I’ll be right there.

Vivek: Well, I would welcome that because I have no idea what I’m gonna do next. And, I’m at the stage of seeking career advice for my six and eight year old, so that’s where we are. So all inquiries from you are welcome, but I welcome you sort of like it to be, you put it as intrusive, but I think one of the problems today is that we don’t lean into each other’s lives enough and sometimes, like, you know, for good intentions, like, oh, I don’t intrude. I don’t know that I don’t own the person may be private about how they’re thinking about their issues. When they’re ready, they’ll come to me and they’ll ask for help. And by the way, that like, rarely happens. I think most of the time people need help they don’t actually reach out, but they would welcome somebody else coming and saying, hey, let me support you. Or when they’re struggling with like career stuff. Like, I remember when I finished residency training, like back in 2006, I had no idea, like, what I was going to do afterward. I was like, pretty darn lost because everyone else around me, by the way, had a job, was going off on fellowship, knew exactly what they were doing, and I was like, still trying to figure it out. And I still remember friends who reached out to me during that time to be like, hey, I know you’re just trying to figure stuff out, but just want to check in. How are you doing? You know what’s going on. You need to help? Do you need brainstorms?

Kate: They were like, do you like uniforms? Do you really like military processions? Do you love brass? And they’re like have I got a career for you.

Vivek: Man. Yeah, but that was just the thing is, like, they actually didn’t have answers, but just showing up to say, hey, I’m here to help you, support you, talk through whatever you want to talk through, I mean, that meant the world to me. It meant that I, I wasn’t going to be alone in trying to figure it all out. And I think that’s sort of at the end of the day, what we all want. We have a lot to figure out in life. It’s hard. It’s not easy. But if we can know that we’re not alone in figuring out life, that just makes it all the better. It changes it from hardship and drudgery to joy and to happiness.

Kate: My friend. Yes, you are a great joy in my life. Thank you for doing this with me.

Vivek: It’s always so nice to talk to you, Kate. You make me laugh more than most people do, and I need that in my life. So thank you for your of your kindness, your reflection and all the laughter. I just love it.

Kate: I don’t know about you, but I’m going to spend the next 15 minutes sending ridiculous voice memos to my friends, asking them what brought them delight today, or just checking in on them, because apparently that’s what the Surgeon General recommends. Vivek’s reminder that we are good medicine for each other feels so profound right now. Loneliness is sneaky. We might not even think that we’re lonely if we’re just constantly seeing other people talking at us on our phones. But it’s there. It is convincing us that we’re alone. Or that asking for help is some kind of weakness. But the truth is, we’re not meant to do this life alone. Relationships, purpose and surface aren’t just lovely ideas, they’re the foundation of our well-being. And maybe the best thing we can do to feel less alone is to show up for each other in small ways. Just call or pick up the phone when someone calls. Just ask for help or respond to somebody else if you think that they do need some. Like, let’s really respond to the needs of another person. As we step into lent next week, a season that asks us to focus on what really matters, what if we use this time to lean back into each other, to reach out first, to remind ourselves that connection is still possible? Yes, I’m looking at you. So here might be a little blessing for that feeling, for if you happen to feel a little achy inside. Blessed are you, feeling the quiet ache of disconnection, wondering if anyone sees you, if anyone notices, if anyone might reach back if you dare to reach out. Blessed are you carrying the deep truth that you were made for connection, even if it feels risky. Even if it’s been a while. Blessed are you who send the text, ask the better question or show up for someone else. Not because it’s easy, but because you know we’re at our best when we hold each other up. And blessed are you who welcome others in. Who say yes, come over. Or I was thinking of you. Or you’re not alone. Because when we let ourselves care and be cared for, we remember this is how we were meant to live. May your loneliness soften just enough to let love in. May you notice the small threads of connection all around you. A wave, a smile, a voice that says I’m here. May you feel it deep in your bones. You are worthy of love. You are never alone.

Kate: Thank you for listening, my dears. If this episode touched you, will you share it with someone who could use a little hope today? Maybe it might be a nice way to make a connection with someone. And hey, if you’re looking for a gentle way to walk through lent this year, we’ve created free lent devotionals for you and your community. They are designed to help us reconnect with ourselves, with God, with others, and with what is sacred. And you can download them for free at katebowler.com/lent or find the link in the show notes. Also, if you want to keep the conversation going. Call us and leave a voicemail at (919) 322-8731 or come find me online at @katecbowler. Like Vivek’s example of his neighbors coming together to help each other, I want to hear what small acts of connection have surprised you lately. Okay, until next time, lovey. But remember, you are a gift to this world. And I’m so glad we get to do the good and hard parts together. A big thank you to our partners, Lilly Endowment, the Duke Endowment, and Duke Divinity School. And to the team behind everything happening at Everything Happens, Jess Richie, Harriet Putman, Keith Weston, Baiz Hoen, Gwen Heginbotham, Brenda Thompson, Iris Greene, Hailie Durrett, Anne Herring, Hope Anderson, Kristen Balzer, Elia Zario, Katherine Smith and Megan Crunkleton. Thank you, my dears. This is Everything Happens with me, Kate Bowler.